SWISCO - The Replacement Hardware Authority

39-411 RH Ware Window Crank

A quick learner from Florida says:
I need the EXACT measurements of the 39-411 in all facets of the mechanism, but with a STRAIGHT link arm, NOT an offset link arm like the 39-411 has. Cam you help me identify a window operator with the measurements of the 39-411 but with a STRAIGHT link arm? Thanks you in advance for your prompt reply.
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Dave from SWISCO responded:
How about our 39-074? A few aspects are a little different, but it's the closest we have. Could you get this to work in your window?
A quick learner from Florida says:
The link arm on the 39-074 is a whole HALF-INCH larger than the link arm on my window operator. Don't you believe that could present a problem??? I can't imagine you wouldn't have a crank mechanism with much closer if not the exact measurements I am looking for, especially since mine appears to be a very basic model. Please help me identify a better match.
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Dave from SWISCO responded:
Unfortunately, there is no basic model awning operator in the industry. All manufacturers re-invent the wheel, so to speak, every time they need to use an operator. Kind of like what Ford and Chevy do with their cars.

My feeling is that if the holes line up on the casing, and the arm configuration is close, the operator should work on the window. As for that 1/2" difference in the link arm, there is a certain amount of play in the operator linkage that should make up the difference. Now, I cannot guarantee it, as it also depends on the window and I do not know what you're working with there, but I have gotten away with using different sized link arms in the past without any serious consequences. I recommend that you look over where the operator would install in the window and try to judge how much room you have to mess around with.

If you don't think it will work, though, then I am not sure if we have anything else. I do not have a version of the 39-411 with the same size straight arm and have been unable to find one.
A quick learner from Florida says:
Thanks for your comprehensive reply. So then the way I understand it, the only IMPERATIVE in terms of the specs would be to make sure the mounting holes line up? If you had to prioritize the specs, the length of the link arm would be the last item you would consider? Would it be foolish of me to try the 39-411 (even though it has exactly the same measurements of my old window operator) since it has an offset link arm as opposed to a straight link arm? Just trying to weigh the options since you can't seem to locate a match. Thanks again for your time and effort to help me, Dave.
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Dave from SWISCO responded:
Yes, you are correct. I would say the first and most important item is the orientation of the mounting screw holes. The next most important thing would be the configuration of the gear and link arms.

Now, let's focus on the link arm itself. The most important factor here is the installation hole in the end (ie, is it a plain hole, or is it threaded?). Otherwise, as long as the length is close the travel in the gearing should make up the difference.

If you were to use the 39-411, whose link arm is offset, then my concern would be that the link arm will have to be attached to the other side of the window linkage. That may not necessarily be a problem, depending on the window. If it is, I wonder if you could swap out arms, or even put the off set arm in a "bench vise" and flatten it out.

I hope I answered the question for you without too much confusion.
A quick learner from Florida says:
Dave you haven't confused me at all. In fact you have shedded additional light on a number of very important considerations and given me hope that I still may be able to replace my broken operator with a new functional one even though the specs may not be exactly the same.

In regard to the installation hole in the link arm, yes...I am making sure the replacement operator has exactly a 3/8" unthreaded hole, since it appears that anything different would not provide the means for properly connecting my operator to the window linkage (I have already noticed what appears to be a permanent male stud jetting from the window assembly). Focusing on this connection for a moment, when I inspect my other Yale Ogron windows, it does not appear that there is an E-ring or anything used to secure this connection beyond the stud inserting into the installation hole in the link arm. When I attempt to install the new operator I hope to eventually pinpoint, do I simply insert the permanent stud into the hole and rest assured this connection will be secure?

Also, regarding the mounting holes, it appears my broken operator was a replacement for perhaps an original at some point, because after removing it I am noticing additional unused drill holes in the window. The problem I face is that the only drill holes large enough to accommodate the screws that come with the operator are the two that held this operator in place. Key question: if I went with your 39-280 (which i just discovered and has a link arm that is only 1/4" longer than the one I am replacing, would it concern you that I would be using only ONE of the TWO top mounting holes? I guess I am asking you whether it is essential or just preferable that all four mounting holes be used, or if a window operator can work perfectly fine AND be secure with one screw attached at the top (where there are actually two mounting holes) and one screw attached at the bottom. Obviously I realize this is not IDEAL, but just wondering if I would be stressing the parts too much to even consider.

Also please remember to address my link arm connection concern as well. Your expert analysis continues to help me arrive at the most appropriate workable solution. Thanks!
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Tom from SWISCO responded:
I actually just found something. You mention Yale-Ogron, so how about the 39-419? This is a Yale-Ogron operator and appears to match the dimensions you requested in your first post.
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