MW Double Hung Twin Seal Window with L-E Argon

Handy Person from North Carolina
I have several windows and the bottom or top sash will not move. It moves only about 1/2" up on the bottom sash. I see a loose cord hanging from the top of the window frame inside the channel. I believe it is called inverted tilt balance. I have two that are a problem right now that will not budge. A top sash and a bottom one but different windows. I have a direction sheet from Patriot Vinyl Windows Balance Systems,Ambesury Group. Do I measure the length of the metal bar or will any length close its length work? What happens to the cords. At least I have the end of the cord knotted at the top, so I can join a new cord and pull it through to the bottom if need be.
8 Replies
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
SWISCO
Expert

It definitely sounds like you need new balances, though I'm not familiar with what an inverted tilt balance might be. That's not terminology I've seen before. Either way, "tilt balance" covers an enormous variety of different parts, so we will definitely need more of a reference.

To start, estimations will not do in this case. You will need precise measurements and references before you buy anything. These are very specific, very delicate systems and they need to match the original parts exactly. You don't have a lot of wiggle room. It's also not possible to replace the cords; you need all new balances.

That will mean removing the sash so that you can access and remove the balances. Since the window is stuck, this likely won't be an easy project. You should brace yourself for that now. Getting it unstuck should be your first priority, though that is admittedly not something we can help with. That's something that will require hands-on trial and error to figure out.

Once you have the balances out, you can submit photos here for me to review and I can tell you exactly what you need to get the window working normally again.

Handy Person from North Carolina
OK...A professional glass/window service came out to remove lower window sash to inspect/remove tilt balance. Sash back in place, closed and locked for now. The tilt balance is 28" with squared off corners, (no ridges). The markings stamped are 28C, and (NL) BSI. Measurement is metal part only. NL in tiny letters to left of BSI. I measured carefully. You know measure twice, cut once. LOL. The cord was hanging loose and not tight like it should have been. In photo 2, I show the small parts. There is a 1/2" nub which fits inside the channel in small round metal piece which appears to be pot metal. Not sure if that nub broke off sash frame or if it is part of this mechanism. It came flying out onto the carpet when sash was removed. I thought that is what allows window to rotate and tilt. Please explain if that is incorrect. I am going to need a new lower window sash if that nub was part window sash. Please explain as I will have to add this window to an existing PlyGem TwinSeal claim on hold right now until I reconfirm window sizes. The Glassman remeasured all windows in my claim with PlyGem as we have some others clouded up between 3/4" panes. I can submit more close up photos to you of items and photo of window if needed. All the sashes are tilt-in's.
5 user uploaded images
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
SWISCO
Expert

Thank you! These photos are a huge help. What you have here looks to be a pretty typical S795-28 channel balance. The bottom "T" shaped shoe is a slightly different style, but as long as yours is 1-1/4" wide then it shouldn't be a big deal. What I'm more concerned about is how the balance attaches to the window via the cord; our S795-28 attaches using a screw, but some older windows use a hook. We can make that for you but only as a custom order, since it isn't a stock configuration. Just let me know.

As for the nub you mentioned, that appears to be part of the pivot bar. Its function is exactly as you described. Would it be possible to see the rest of it? There are a ton of different pivot bars compatible with the S795-28 and I don't quite recognize this one, but I feel confident that I will once I see the whole thing.

Handy Person from North Carolina
I have attached 4 photos. There is a cord with hook, and a photo of opposite end of metal 28" bar with pulley and photo of slot for J-hook at top of window frame. I hope I don't have to do anything custom. Do I need to take the window out to photo the hole where that little nub came out of the bottom of the window? It is difficult for me to handle this window and will be a challenge to get it out. Window frame measures approx 30 1/8"H x 32 15/16"W. I understand there is a part within the window but the bottom of window frame needs to be taken off (couple screws hold frame in place. There are a couple of Phillips screws in the bottom frame. I could get a new bottom sash which might be easier rather than replace this metal nub or part within window. I will just add it to my claim with PlyGem window company. They have been jerking me around since last August only delaying this claim further claiming covid is delay.
4 user uploaded images
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
SWISCO
Expert

Thanks for these photos. I hate to say it, but that hook at the end of the cord does mean your balance has to be custom made. There's no way around that, unfortunately. If that's something you want to try, I will need to know a quantity. Then I can email you a purchase link and price quote that you can use to add the custom balances to your cart.

As for the nub, that is definitely the pivot bar. I am confident I can ID it for you, but I really do need to see it removed. It's up to you if you want to try to replace the whole sash, but that seems like a serious solution for such a small part. They just screw on and off, it shouldn't be much trouble to remove it at all.

Handy Person from North Carolina
Figure out the cost for 2....one for each side. I wouldn't replace just 1...in that case, you know how that goes. The other side will go out shortly thereafter. Do I need to replace the top sash balances also (not sure of length of those) but would probably be same style pulley. I failed to look at the tops to see if they have them also and the size. In summer the AC is on all the time so we rarely open windows but it is a safety issue. You need to be able to quickly exit in case of fire. The top sashes tilt in also. Many people in this community have lower sash tilt only with the top sash inoperable. I was thinking of robbing the same part from the bonus room window (same size) and putting it in this one for now. It is finished but we never use as 16 steps to get up there. Can you also show me a photo of the pivot bar. I would like to see it and how it screws in. Or can you send me a photo of how to install it. I know, it's not rocket science, but a photo is worth a thousand words. I already have photos of BSI tilt balance and a DIY video. Thank you for your help. I will check back here in a while.
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
SWISCO
Expert

We don't have a video or diagram that shows a pivot bar installed, unfortunately. If you look at the bottom of your sash it should be self-evident. 

What I can do is grab a photo from an old customer discussion that shows what yours might look like. Just note that this is a purely random example. I have no idea what your pivot bar is so I don't really know if it works the same way. The Series 795 is compatible with a ton of different kinds, so you're the only person who can really say for sure how your pivot bar installs. 99% of the time it's like the image you see below: just a piece of metal that screws on. There's usually nothing else to it.

For now I will email you a purchase link and price quote that will let you add 2 of these custom balances to your cart. You can then checkout as normal.

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