Just can't get these spiral balances to work

Quick Learner from Pittsburgh
Jan 20, 2023 9:07 am

I went to home depot then I went to other places and I keep ordering parts and they don't work and I had to take balances back and order more from other places.

I bought your 15-048 and series 600 balances and I watched your video but my window still won't stay up.

There are three identical windows in the same room. One window is working perfectly fine. One window is completely missing both spiral balances for the top sash. So I took the working window apart to see the balance length used in that window. It had 33 inch spiral balances for the lower sash and 30 inch balances for the upper sash. So, I am assuming I should order two 30 inch balances for the window missing balances.

The third window, again with the same measurements, had 32 inch balances for the bottom sash. Which I thought was strange. I couldn't get the top sash out to measure the top balances in that window, but I could see that the pivot shoes were broken and suck in the track. This broken pivot shoe is what was holding the top sash from falling.

My question is could a window use a shorter balance and still operate? I found four, 31 inch balances in my husband's workshop still in the box. I must have ordered them years ago. But would they work in lieu of ordering two 32 inch balances? In my opinion (and as you know I am not the expert), but since the windows themselves all measure exactly the same, shouldn't they all take 33 inch balances for the lower sash and 30 inch balances for the upper sash?

My husband may have used the wrong size in the third window years ago...HELP!

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9 Replies
Quick Learner from Pittsburgh
Jan 20, 2023 9:53 am
This is a second issue I'm having with repairing these windows at my rental property. The upper sash spiral balances were missing and when the window was unlocked, the sash came crashing down. When I took the window out, this piece holding the pivot bar for the right hand side of the window obviously cracked and fell out. The screw hold the pivot plate to the window is still on the bottom of the sash. I took pictures, but they came out too dark. The pivot bar is encapsulated into the plastic. Is there any way to repair this?
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Tom
Tom from SWISCO
Jan 24, 2023 11:51 am
SWISCO
EXPERT

Hello! In answer to your first question, regarding whether a shorter balance can work for a window, the answer is "sort of." What you can do is drill a new mounting hole at the top to be a little lower than the original. Enough to make up the difference. The consequence of that is that your window wouldn't be able to open as far, but it would close despite having a shorter balance. It's not ideal, but without a reliable reference it's definitely a good fallback option. I've done it myself and I find it works fine, though it's a headache when you want to put in an air conditioner in the summer.

As for the pivot bar, you can't repair that. It would need to be replaced. It looks similar to our 26-203, 26-205, and 26-202, but you should try to use an undamaged version as a reference to verify whether any of these are a match.

Quick Learner from Pittsburgh
Jan 25, 2023 4:18 pm
I just called regarding the pivot bars I received today regarding the length of the bars from the plastic housing. The parts are 26-203 Amacor Pivot Bar Pair. On the Swisco part description page, the bar is indicated to be 5/8". One of the bars is 5/8", however, the other bar is longer measuring 3/4" while the original bar only measures 1/2". I am worried the 3/4" bar may be too long. Is this a factory defect?
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Quick Learner from Pittsburgh
Jan 25, 2023 7:18 pm
Tom, Thank you for your follow-up, but to go back to one of my original questions..."if the windows all measure the same, shouldn't they all use the same length spiral balances?? I know I ordered the correct style or type of balances with the red tips because what I ordered are identical to the ones in the windows. It's the length difference that is throwing me off, because one had 32 inch balances and one window didn't have any balances for the upper sash. So I thought I should go off the one working window which has 33 inch balances for the bottom sash and 30 inch balances for the upper sash. What is your opinion on this? Alanna Testa
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
Jan 26, 2023 12:23 pm
SWISCO
EXPERT

Yes, if all the windows are identical then they should all use the same length. The only problem is, since all your windows use a different length, it's difficult to say what size to go with. 

If you are confident that the 33" and 30" long balances are operable then they would definitely be the pick.

Quick Learner from Pittsburgh
Jan 26, 2023 1:28 pm
Hi Tom, I called a window company near me and the owner said he would come and see what is going on with my windows and hopefully help solve some of these issues.

With regard to the pivot bars, I still need an answer to my question about the varying lengths of the bar. The set of 26-203 have different lengths as I had indicated and they don't even fit the new or old pivot shoes. Wouldn't the length affect the sash from fitting back into the frame? Would we need to cut off the excess portion of the bar? and is this possible? My help is supposed to come tomorrow or Saturday. I can't really wait until next week because the HUD inspector is coming back next Tuesday. Thanks!

Alanna Testa
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
Jan 27, 2023 9:05 am
SWISCO
EXPERT

I'm sorry for overlooking that part of your original post. The length of the pivot bar does matter, yes; if it's too long, it won't fit in the pivot shoe. If it's not long enough, it risks falling out. 

The bad news is that the three pivot bars I recommended above are the only three products we sell that have the same style. We don't sell them with alternate pin sizes. What you see above is all we have. These have a very unique design, since the pin comes out at an angle, so you won't be able to use any of our others as an alternative.

Yours probably isn't a factory defect, but just an alternative style that isn't made anymore. It definitely seems like someone repaired your windows in the past and used wrong hardware on half of them, so at this stage I really can't say for sure which is right and which is wrong.

Quick Learner from Pittsburgh
Jan 27, 2023 9:50 am
Hi Tom, Thanks for your answer, but the broken pivot bar is the original bar. The pair I received from Swisco does not meet the specifications as indicated on your website. As I show the left bar does measure 5/8" as the diagram shows. I need the right bar and the one I received with the pair is the bar that measures the longest at 3/4 of an inch. This is why I thought the pair I received may be defective. The CS rep I spoke to earlier in the week also suggested this pair just may be defective and they would send me another pair if that was the case. I do see the bar is at an angle and the angle of the longest bar of the pair I received would be for the right side of the window as it matches identically to my broken bar. Could the bar be cut down with a hack saw? Or could you check another pair of part No. 26-203 to see if the bars are uniform? Thanks!
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
Jan 27, 2023 1:19 pm
SWISCO
EXPERT

I think I understand the issue here. The 5/8" dimension that you're referring to is not the length of the metal bar, it's the height of the plastic body. These bars are a standard size and shape, with the only differing aspect being the design of the body. 

All the same, it is odd that the one you bought from us is so long. If you have the long one in hand then I see no reason why you can't cut it down to size with a bench vice and hacksaw. 

I'll talk to our photo team and have them actually add the bar length to the 26-203 store page, since this has been a point of confusion. That should make sure this doesn't happen again.


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