Balancers for non tilt windows

A handy person from Honolulu says:

Attached pics are of one broken balancer. The channel is 9/16" wide (nominal 1/2") x 5/8" deep x 22" long. Stamp on back reads "21 D". Have ten windows of different sizes that won't stay up. House is 30 to 35 years old. Windows are probably original, but not sure. Do you carry replacements? The block and tackles appear intact, springs rusted. Plastic end caps are broken. Thank you...! Robert 

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Tom from SWISCO responded:

Thanks for your photos. Based on what I see here, you have either our S351-22 or S390-22 , depending on the depth of the bottom shoe. That's the only difference between them. I recommend measuring your shoe and referring to our dimensions to confirm the best match.

Note that since the shoe on your pictured balance is broken, you need to get an undamaged version to use as a reference. You won't be able to determine the better match any other way. Measuring that shoe is a vital step and cannot be skipped.

Lastly, your old stamp of "21D" should match our more modern "2140." You can always weigh your sash to verify.

Comparison of the S351 and S390 balance shoes.
Comparison of the S351 and S390 balance shoes.

A handy person from Honolulu says:
Thanks Tom. Great Info. I'll try to find a whole bottom shoe and get back to you. Robert
A handy person from Honolulu says:

1. The window that the 21D balances came out of weighs 18.2 lbs.

2.The attached photos are of a unbroken balancer for a slightly smaller window (15.2 lbs.) This balancer is 22" long x 9/16 deep x 1/2" wide.) with 21C stamped on the balancer.

3. The bottom shoe measures 1 1/8".

4. If this is enough info can you prepare an order for me for 4 each balancers to replace the 21D old one and 2 each balancers to replace the 21C old one. Thank you...! Robert

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Tom from SWISCO responded:

Thanks, Robert! Sounds like that would be our S390-22 channel balance with a 2140 stamp option. 

All orders can be placed directly on our site at your convenience. 

A handy person from Honolulu says:
Hi Tom, I have ordered 4 balancers ( S390-22 , 2140 stamp, as you suggest) for two windows that have the 22" balancer, 1 1/8" bottom show, and a 21D stamp. The third window also has 22" balancers and 1 1/8" bottom shoe, but it has a 21C stamp. Will the S390-22 , 2140 stamp work for the third window? (window weight: 21D stamp = 18.2 lbs. 21C stamp = 15.2 lbs.) Once I see these balancers work, I will order more. I have at least 8 windows to fix. Thanks, really appreciate your help. Robert
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Tom from SWISCO responded:

The 21C stamp typically corresponds to our 2130 option. However, the given sash weight of 15.2 pounds would be too heavy for a 2130.

Two balances with a 2130 stamp carry 12 through 15 pounds. Meanwhile, two balances with a 2140 stamp carry 15 through 23 pounds. This balance is admittedly right on the cusp but since it's a little over 15 pounds I would personally opt for the 2140.

It's up to you. If the 21C has been working well all these years without issue, then you may not want to change it. 

A handy person from Honolulu says:
Thanks, Tom. I did find the weight chart after I emailed you last. I will try the 2140 first. If it doesn't work, I can put it in one of the 21D balancer windows. Will order more after I receive the four 2140s and then take apart the rest of the windows...:) Happy Holidays...!
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Tom from SWISCO responded:

That sounds like the smart plan. My personal rule of thumb is to trust in the weight of the sash; the original installers may have made a mistake when they put in the original balances, but arithmetic never lies.

Happy holidays to you, as well! I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have.

A handy person from Honolulu says:
Hi Tom...received 2 sets of S390 22 2140 channel balances for my non tilt windows. First problem is the hole for the hook is close to the take out clip. Requires a long push down . Can pull down a couple inches but more is hard. Concerned the balance will slip and go flying. #2) One of old balances had the top fitting screwed in place in the window frame. Maybe this is not a problem. The pic with the removed top cap next to the top of new balance in included. The arrows on the box they lay on are not relevant. I watched video 11...fyi. Thank you. Robert
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Tom from SWISCO responded:

Hello! I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble.

I don't see anything particularly unusual about the location of the hook hole. It does take some elbow grease to push the balances down, but of course you don't want to force it if you feel like it's close to snapping. One thought is to check another window in the house to verify which of those two holes you ought to use; maybe using the lower of the two will make it a little easier.

As for the top sash guide, I'm very confident that we have a match for this. It's just a little hard to be sure without seeing its front face. For now, my tentative suggestion is the 18-008 . Check its design and measurements to see if this is a good match.

Detail of 18-008
Detail of 18-008

Alternate view of 18-008
Alternate view of 18-008

A handy person from Honolulu says:
Hi Tom...was able to install both balances on one window (see photo)and fit window. Without the top sash guides lowering the window does not catch the balances. Thanks for the education...! Looks like I need to order 16 top sash guides for 8 Windows. Three more photos attached of the one whole sash guide I have recovered. The dimensions match 18-008 but the holes are a little different. The sash guide was mounted to the window frame using the top hole which is about 1/2 in from the top. So I think 18-008 will work. What are your thoughts...? Thanks...! Robert.
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Tom from SWISCO responded:

I see what you mean about those holes. the hole in our 18-008 is oblong, but my concern is that it might come up short.

If so, you could consider the 18-008H . This is the same exact guide but the hole is oriented toward the top of the space. This would give you enough clearance to drill a new hole in the necessary spot, which may not be possible with the 18-008 .

Dimenisons for 18-008H
Dimenisons for 18-008H

A handy person from Honolulu says:

Hi Tom, 

#1) I salvaged two top sash guides and tried the S390-22 / 2140 balancers in the 15.2 lb window. Worked fine except the balancers kept raising the window up about 6" when I let go of it...:) I still need the two sets of 2140s that I have for the 18.2 lb windows. 

#2) I will order a pair of S390-22 / 2130 for the 15.2 lb window. 

#3) 4th and 5th windows weigh 22 lbs. each and have 28" long balancers stamped 27D. I plan to order 4 each S390-28 / 2740 balancers. 

#4) RE: top sash guide I am planning to order 10 each 18-008 top sash guides (instead of 18-008H ) because I can lengthen the slot, if needed, a little easier with a small round file, than I can drill a new hole exactly where it needs to be in the 18-008H . Appreciate your input to the above before I order. 

Thanks, Robert.

A handy person from Honolulu says:
Hi Tom...one more thing: I find small about 1/2" long white plastic clips on both edges of each window. Some are missing showing only a shallow notch in the window edge. I can't find these on your site. Two photos are attached. Lmk if you carry these clips that I think help the window move smoothly in the frame. Thanks so much...! Robert
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Tom from SWISCO responded:

Sounds like a plan, Robert! Your analysis is dead on, and I think your fixes will definitely get these windows operational again.

As for this "J" clip, I have seen it before. It's unfortunately not something that we sell, though. I've tried very hard to track these down in the past but it's just never been in the cards. I wish we could, these are far from uncommon, but at this point in time we just don't have a solution for replacing it. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

A handy person from Honolulu says:
Hi Tom, Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. I've placed my order. This will cover 5 windows. 3 more to go. Bummer about the j clips. I do understand they are so small they must be not cost effective to carry. If they are out there I'm sure you would have found them. Really, really appreciate all your help and clarity. Happy Holidays...! Aloha, Robert
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Tom from SWISCO responded:

Awesome, thanks so much for the order! It means a lot. You know where to find us if you had any other questions.

I hope you have a happy holidays, as well!

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