Emily from SWISCO responded:
July 13, 2022
Hello! When determining the diameter, you want to measure the white outer tube. You don't want to measure the bare spring when determining size, for either diameter or length. It appears you have our Series 900 (3/8" diameter outer tube) or Series 600 (5/8" diameter outer tube) with a blue tip option. Our replacement spiral balances have a metal tube which hold up better to the sun's harsh UV rays. |
Tom from SWISCO responded:
July 14, 2022
Hey, Jim. Emily isn't here today but I'll be happy to assist you. They actually don't make balances in this style with a 1/2" tube. The only two sizes made are 3/8" and 9/16". If you're getting 1/2" for the outer tube then it's probably just a little deformed from age. It happens all the time. I would wager it was originally once 9/16", which would mean my recommendation is the Series 600. |
Hello, Tom and/or Emily. Attached are two photos showing the balance's white plastic tube snugly fitting into a thermal barrier (the hard plastic and fuzzy material) and a physical capture fitting (the soft plastic cube below the thermal barrier). The white 1/2" tube fits snugly into the barrier and fitting and the tube measures very close to 1/2" according to my calipers.
I'm dubious that a 5/8" balance would fit into the above barrier and fitting but you guys are the experts and I value your judgement.
If there is any additional information I can supply, don't hesitate to ask.
Jim
Tom from SWISCO responded:
July 15, 2022
It's ultimately up to you. If you are positive that your balance is only 1/2" in diameter then I would recommend contacting the manufacturer directly to see if they can supply you with that exact size. It's just not something that we can offer at this time. 3/8" and 9/16" are the only sizes that we have available. |
Tom from SWISCO responded:
July 19, 2022
Yes, our balances in actuality measure 9/16". For some reason it's common practice in the industry to label these balances as 5/8". Don't ask me why, I've never gotten a straight answer! It was like that a long time before we started selling hardware. Maybe these used to be manufactured in 5/8" at one time, but that is not the case for our balances. Your old balances appear to have nylon tubes, which are a little more flexible than the modern metal types. It's possible that this flexibility allowed them to squeeze into the smaller space available in your jamb. It's also possible that the balances were dropped into the jamb from the top before the windows were installed. This happens from time to time, though it is annoying since it makes repairs difficult. Repair is unfortunately not desirable for most window manufacturers, since if you can fix your window then that means you aren't buying a new one. Less money for them. They never want to make it easy for you. I'm not really sure if using a 3/8" balance is going to be a good idea. They just can't carry the same kind of weight that their thicker cousin can handle. Even if the springs are calibrated to hold the same load, over time it may end up being too much and they would fail earlier than they would otherwise. And that is only assuming that they can, indeed, hold the same load; in a lot of cases that won't be possible. We do sell a particular tool that allows you to spread the jamb track a little for issues like this. See our 75-069. These are very expensive though and I really only like to recommend these for professionals who plan on repairing a whole lot of windows. I'm not sure if it's worth it for one project, but I thought I'd mention it just to show you that the option is out there. Vinyl jambs are a little pliable and it wouldn't be totally impossible to install a 9/16" balance in there if you really had to. At the end of the day I really do think that size is going to be your best bet. I can't tell you that it would be easy to install, but I don't think you're going to get anything else to work even half as well. |
Hi, Tom and Emily
The following is my current thinking. Please tell me if I've gone off the rails.
Order two 3/8" sash balances. Considering that we are moving from ½" blue tip balances, should the new balances be blue or red tips (or some other color)?
Using the dimensions provided in my previous communications, do you have sufficient data to provide 3/8" balances that will function to counterbalance the sash?
Will they install as the ½" balances do: Insert into the top-to-bottom slot, feed down and into the thermal and capture fittings, anchor balance to the sash at the top with a screw, set spring tension with the special tool (cw or ccw?), and connect spiral shaft to the shoe.
Does your company manufacture the balances? Are they warranted?
What are there any anticipatable problems?
What else should I be aware of before we proceed?
How much will these two sash balances cost?
Is this a plan or folly?
Jim
Tom from SWISCO responded:
July 20, 2022
Hey, Jim. If you want to go with the 3/8" Series 900 then you'll have to get the exact weight of the sash to determine whether any of the S900-22 color options can work for you. Just note that the absolute heaviest load that the S900-22 can support is 22 pounds, with its Blue Tip. The larger 9/16" model carries well beyond that, even up to 40 pounds of support. If your sash is heavier than 22 pounds then the 3/8" balance is off the table. It simply won't work. We do not manufacture our balances, we're just a third party distributor. We also do not provide a warranty for any of our products. You can see our return policy here for more information regarding that. As for installing, it's very simple. I'll share a video at the end of this post that shows you exactly how we do it. It is applicable for most windows and assumes, of course, that the balance will fit in the track opening; which the 3/8" should, in your case. I do anticipate problems with using this size. As stated before, if your sash weight exceeds the available weight options for the S900-22 then it simply won't work. Even if it doesn't, there is a good chance that these balances will have a significantly reduced lifespan anyway. These are very skinny balances, barely larger than a pen, and you're using them to replace much heavier models. I just don't think they'll last very long even if the weights match. |
Hello, Tom. You asked for the sash weight: 14.4 lbs by my scale.
Can we proceed with two (2) 3/8" balances? Pick an appropriate tip color to suit.
As for the service life of these balances, the sash is from 1959 so there is some question how long the sash will last. Unfortunately, the sash is on the south side of the house in full sun. The sealant around the pane is cracking.
Let me know price and delivery. Do I purchase from you or a company you represent?
One last question, if I may. What size screw anchors the top of these 3/8" balances? The old 1/2" balances used 3/8" wood screws.
It has been an education working with you and Emily. A good experience. Thank you.
Jim
Tom from SWISCO responded:
July 28, 2022
Great. So, like I mentioned before, you're looking at the S900-22 spiral balance. If your sash is only 14 pounds then you can use our Red Tip option, which carries 7 through 21 pounds. You can see a detailed price breakdown on the store page I've linked you to, here and previously. All orders can be placed on our site at your convenience. The S900-22 uses a screw like our 33-016 to install at the top. This his a #8 x 1" stainless steel screw. |
Tom from SWISCO responded:
August 12, 2022
Awesome! Thanks so much for confirming. Please let us know if you ever needed anything in the future. We would be happy to help! |