Balancer help needed please - 2nd attempt

Contractor from Oxford, PA

Team,

I am in need of help. You have always been so helpful and smart with these things and normally with vinyl windows, I am good but I cannot remove this balancer to show it entirely. Here are some photos and info. 

White vinyl single hung window with bad left and right balancers....also one shoe has exploded, so I'd like to replace both shoes as well. Sash tilts in and visible glass is 31" wide by 29-3/4" high. Siderail the balancer fits into measures 1-1/2" across from front to back. Edge to edge of balancer is approximately 30" and from top to the pin is approximately 30-5/8" Hard to know since I cannot get it out safely at this time until I can replace them. 

 I attached photos though and hopefully they help. Please let me know. Also, sash weighs about 8-10 lbs.thank you.

5 user uploaded images
6 Replies
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
SWISCO
Expert

I'm afraid that I don't recognize this balance off hand. Would it be possible to see the balance removed? A lot of important details as to how it functions are obscured and I'm not sure I can make a recommendation without it out.

In the meantime, my best guess would be our Series 765. This has a similar looking hook on the bottom that yours does at the top, though that in itself is pretty weird. That hook really ought to be on the bottom. Part of me wonders if the original installers used this balance by mistake and just installed it upside to make it work. I really don't know, though. Without knowing more about the original and how it functions then I don't want to guess.

I know that you don't want to remove the balance at this point, but it may be necessary. There's not much else I can glean from these photos other than that it might be an upside-down version of our Series 765, which is less than an ideal recommendation.

If my theory above is accurate, and if someone did install the wrong balance the wrong way, then I wonder if something like our Series 770 might be a better fit for the window. This screws in at the top and attaches to a pivot shoe like yours with the terminal clip at the bottom, where the cord extends. That does seem to be how your current balance works, and the Series 770 would do a much better job of this than the Series 765.

However, there is the possibility that you have some other kind of balance I've never encountered before and it is working as intended, in which case using a different balance may just screw things up. 

The pivot shoe, meanwhile, looks like an older version of our 15-046. You should compare your dimensions to ours to confirm, though, just to be safe.

Contractor from Oxford, PA
Well sadly, I am unable to remove it without going back and spending more time. I took out the top screw but it would not separate from the shoe so I could only tilt it in slightly to see the writing etched on it. I can try and return since they are close by, however any suggestions on how I can separate this item from the shoe safely? It was very tight and no covers to cut the track to remove the old balancer and I do not own spreaders.

thanks much and great info, as always. I attached some added photos.
5 user uploaded images
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
SWISCO
Expert

Assuming your balance works the same way as the Series 770, then you want to bring the shoe up to the metal channel as close as it can get and detach the bottom balance clip from it. You'd then unscrew the balance at the top of the frame and pull it out. There looks to be plenty of room in the jamb for you to slide the balance out once it's disconnected.

This is assuming that this balance is normal, of course. Like I said before this is an odd design and I've never personally encountered it. If this is the wrong balance installed in the wrong way, like I originally guessed, then who knows what the proper method of removing it is. It's entirely possible that whoever installed it crossed their fingers and only barely got it in the window to begin with. I can't predict what kind of complications might be involved with removing a balance installed under such circumstances. I can only warn you to be very careful.

Contractor from Oxford, PA
Well, I was able to get it out and you were right. The balance was upside down, see pics. I collected info and shoe# 15-046 seems a perfect fit, however the balance initially recommended, S765-30 (since this measures 30") seems perfect as well, but when I flipped it and put into the shoe to close the window, I was unable to get the window to latch since the hooked bottom, kind of forced me to put it into the inside slot of the current shoe and when I tilted it up, it would not latch closed on that side. Will this hook, seen in close up shot, be able to fit into center or outside slot of shoe 15-046? I looked over the balance 770 the weight class seems a bit high for 30" option B. The sash I have is maybe 10lbs, if that. Do I need to change the shoe if I go with 770? Although, I love the terminal clip and string...would make it easier. Check out new pics I took today.

Thanks, man! you have been awesome as always.
I wish I could talk with you sometimes though, waiting on simple questions is sometimes a bit much. But LOVE your knowledge and product.
thanks
Jason
5 user uploaded images
Tom
Tom from SWISCO
SWISCO
Expert

That's definitely the Series 765. That's one mystery solved. This balance should be compatible with this type of pivot shoe regardless of slot used, too. So would the Series 770, for that matter. 

But it sounds like the position of the balance in the track is affecting how the window tilts. If I had to guess, the original installer tried to get this balance to work the normal way but couldn't for this reason, forcing them to put it in upside down. 

At this stage I think our Series 770 is definitely your best bet. It is fully compatible with the existing shoe and is designed to function like how the original balance was installed, upside-down though it may have been. It is what I would use in your position.

If you wanted peace of mind, you can see our return policy here.

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